all right. at the top of the show we asked you why are you awake. producer rob gifford has answers. rob? >> norah, mikey writes willie has never looked so good. paul writes i have a job interview in just a few hours and just one beer left. >> finish it off quick, buddy. rob, thanks. "morning joe" starts right now.

you're an emotional guy. a lot of us are. you know this before i even mention it. it's been the main topic of conversation, and that is your emotions. do you understand why it's so much a topic of discussion, and do you worry at all about it being a distraction, especially during times of high moment? >> no. listen, it's who i am. there are some things i feel very strongly about. when it comes to kids, when it comes to my own family, soldiers, i feel very strongly that i want america to be the country that i grew up in. >> personal question. you're a smoker, not just a smoker, a pretty committed smoker. i've got one in my own family. we all know him. do you think it's fair game as a topic giving smoking's prominence in the health care

debate, or do you think it should be nobody's business and a matter of personal privilege form you. >> well, it is what it is. that's my take on it. it's a bad habit. i wish i didn't have it. >> have you tried to quit? >> i've tried to quit from time to time, but not for a while. >> it just is what it is. i've learned to say that actually here on "morning joe." welcome to "morning joe" everybody. good morning. it's friday, january 7th. with us onset, the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass and columnist for "the new york times" charles blow and pulitzer prize winning author and co-host of pbs's "need to know" jon meacham and in washington, nbc's chief correspondent norah o'donnell. >> last night, almost choked up it seemed. then it got to smoking. >> i will be the first to admit i have underestimated john

boehner every step of the way. he is a party establishment guy. he's a guy that has a lot of friends on k street. has always gone -- you know, pretty joyless character. i'm not saying he doesn't work. i'm always underestimating him. >> good start. >> what he's done in the transition is pretty darn impressive. jon meacham, they've kept their head down, haven't made the mistakes that newt and nancy pelosi and others have made. >> there haven't been that many rhetorical excesses which i think is interesting. when you look at what the lame duck session did, it was a pretty centrist -- this is a group or at least a leadership, i should say, that cooperated with the president on some pretty progressive things as well and then got the tax cut in return. i think it's a very interesting

moment when john boehner becomes the clark clifford of our times. >> richard haass just rolled his eyes over there. charles, let me ask you, though, and then i want to get to richard about a meeting he had yesterday with the cfr. these are dark days for progressives. you look at the new chief of staff. he's a wall street banker. you look at the top economic guy who is coming in. these are centrists. they're pro business. they are not liked in the least by movement liberals. >> right. but it would be a mistake for anyone to assume that people who get elected to go to washington are not politicians. they're all politicians. barack obama is a politician. he's already gearing up. it is a full-fledged gear-up for

re-election. >> are you saying this to me or to his progressive base? >> i'm saying in general. it's not my job to sell what he's doing. but what i'm saying is that politically, it makes a lot of sense. >> it makes a lot of sense. >> in terms of wanting to get re-elected. that's what all of these moves are about. >> and look at him. mika, he's at 50%. his approval rating at 50%. disapproval, 42%. he hasn't had numbers like that since before the health care battle. >> that's something to keep in mind as we watch the republicans move forward and look at what their top goals are. i agree, it's been an elegant start that set the right tone. but it has only been 36 hours. >> we republicans have screwed up a lot in a 36-hour time frame. >> well, that's true. okay. >> you listen to what boehner was saying about how the health care bill is going to suck the

life out of america. >> we have news on that this morning about whether or not it's a job killer or a deficit inducer. >> i think it's a job killer myself. >> it might be a deficit inducer as well, trying to repeal it. >> let that debate continue. i still think that's a good debate for republicans to have. but a couple of things happening and we'll get to it in news. first of all, bob gates coming out and doing what we all know around this table has to be done, cutting pentagon spending. that's the first thing. secondly, a lot of activity from the chinese, and you saw the foreign ministry yesterday. >> yes, the president of china coming to the united states on a state visit in just over ten days. this is going to be the defining relationship of this century, what happens between the united states and china, for better and for worse. we'll literally define the world more than any other single bilateral relationship. it's been a very rough year or two. chinese have made a lot of, to be polite, assertive comments

and had assertive actions. what they're on now is on a reassuring charm offensive because they want this visit to go well. watch this space, watch what happens in ten days. what bob gates did, very, very interesting. he knows defense has to be part of the budget mix. he decided to cut some troops. what that says to me besides the realism that defense has to be part of the debate, is that the sort of very high infantry oriented manpower intensity of iraq and afghanistan, this is not necessarily the pattern or template for the future. we can't keep doing these massive interventions. also coming back to china, when you think about it, we have to rebalance our military. we have to rebuild the navy, rebuild the air force because asia will become the central theater of the 21st century. that's a naval theater and air theatre. >> speaking of china, i think you and my father have been meeting with the same people this week. secretary gates who is in our

top news story right now is also going to china and preparing for that visit as well. top story, for the first time since the 9/11 terror attacks the pentagon is laying out plans to reduce spending and the size of the military. yesterday defense secretary robert gates presented his proposed budget which calls for $78 billion in spending cuts over the next five years. the proposal also includes reducing army soldiers and marines by some 50,000 starting in the year 2015 and raising health care premiums for military retirees and their families. yesterday gates cast the cuts as a matter of national security saying the nation's, quote, dire fiscal situation koess a threat to american influence and credibility around the world. >> i want to emphasize that while america is at war and confronts a range of future security threats, it's important not to repeat the mistakes of the past by making drastic and ill-conceived cuts to toefr all defense budget. at the same time, it is

imperative for this department to eliminate wasteful, excessive and unneeded spending, to do everything we can to make every defense dollar count. >> gates faces immediate resistance to his planned cuts, especially the elimination of more than $14 billion program to buy an amphibious assault vehicle. joe, even republicans an boehner in his interview was saying, we can't not look at defense as a place to save money. >> paul ryan saying it. i think you're finding an awful lot of republicans starting to say it. what's going to be fascinating as we get into the 2012 election what republicans on the campaign trail, running for president, are going to have the guts to say. what richard just said, what we know, what historians know, what outside observers know, that the united states cannot keep fighting 20th century battles in the 21st century with hundreds of thousands of troops being flown across the globe. we have got to stop being an

occupying force. >> i wonder if we can make a plumbing of some kind, a nor quift kind of pledge, instead of talking about military spending, talk about it by branch. as richard knows better than anybody, each branch considers itself a force and world unto itself. so the navy's air force is mighty big, and everybody has their own things. so the culture of this is your branch of service wants to have everything everybody else has. and so we don't really actually have a military budget. we have four to five separate ones that have a lot of overlapping capacity that is are really expensive. >> it's interesting. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mike mullin, said the biggest national security challenge facing this country is not china, not iran, iraq or anybody else. it is the deficit. if we need to restore the foundations of american economic health and solvency if we're

going to be able to feel a serious army and air force and marine corps in ten or 20 or 30 or 40 years. bob gates, what he said yesterday is exactly right. but, the one area where, if you want to cut defense spending for the next five years, it's called afghanistan. that's $100 billion. one out of every seven defense dollars we're spending is afghanistan. if we keep that off limits, it means we're really going to have to cut troops and equipment. the real debate for the republican candidates and others is going to be, is anyone going to stand up and say the most responsible way to rein in defense is to think about reigning in some of these areas like afghanistan which are costing disproportionately. >> i think it would be a popular move to say we'll stop spending $2 billion a week in afghanistan. we're going to stop spending so much money having all these bases across the globe. everybody has been talking about the decline of u.s. power.

actually we're in a position right now that if we had not spent like drunken sailors as mccain always says over the past ten years, we would be in an incredibly powerful position because europe is struggling, south america -- there is so much debt that is crippling the globe, we would be a giant right now along with china -- we are a giant, but we would be in an unassailable position in 2011. let's turn quickly and go to norah in washington. norah, what is the response from democrats in washington over the selection of the new chief of staff and the new economic adviser, two centrists that the president's base can't be thrilled about? >> the quick answer is i think they're sort of looking at it closely. it's republicans who really like bill daley. i want to say one more thing about the defense cuts left out of the debate, given that one

out of seven dollars is going to afghanistan, the key part of some of the cuts that gates is proposing is cutting tri care, the health care our veterans get after they retire. congress has to approve the cuts. the defense department is saying they're going to increase health care fees on our veterans. that is a fight that is going to be a big one, but it just goes to show that everything is on the chopping block. >> norah, that is staggering because, first of all, tri care is already compromised. our veterans were promised health care for life, promised when they were being drafted in the military. tri care is a compromise where the government met them halfway. they're going to go after our met vance and military retirees instead of weapons systems we don't need because they may of fend a congressman? that is obscene. >> that's what i'm saying. this is going to be a debate as

part of this. everybody is going to have to take a cut, and if they're going to raise fees, health care fees on veterans, congress has to approve those cuts and i don't think that will happen. that's going to be a big fight in terms of health care benefits because we know veterans are already struggling anyway. >> all right, norah, thank you. we'll talk more about that. coming up, new buzz about who might replace robert gibbs as white house press secretary. that's next. >> jon meacham. i think it's meacham. >> that would be a very pen sive press secretary. >> all right. that's in the politico playbook. coming up, also a story making front page news, what scientists found hidden in teardrops of women and the impact it has on men. >> chris licht, why are we -- what are we doing here? >> by the way, someone who wrote a tearjerker of a book. you are not one to talk, chris. we will not do that story.

plus, no willie today. he does have his week in review. that's coming up. first, more snow expected in the northeast. here is bill karins with a check on the forecast. light snow falling in times square, currently in new york city. this is a very minor snow event. we're not expecting a lot out of this storm, maybe just enough to make it a little slippery for your morning commute. there's a shot of times square. you can barely pick it up on that scene at all. let's talk about the radar. currently the heaviest snow is down around philadelphia. that's where we got light snow. we could pick up a quick half inch. the storm is back here by buffalo. it's this area here that has enhancement with it that will be moving through the northeast during the day today. so a closer view. brighter white shows the more intense snow. southern portions of the turnpike from dover, delaware, northward, a coating on the roads as you head out the door. also interstate 80 across northern new jersey, a little coating.

only around one to three inches from boston to philly. you have to go up into new england to get into any snow worth shoveling or plowing. i don't think the airports will have much of an an issue. maybe minor problems in new york city. late afternoon maybe minor problems in boston. rest of the country, just cold in the northern plains. chilly in florida the next couple days. no big storms this weekend. we eeld update you during the morning on the areas of snowfall. right now heading out the door, the worst of it right outside in philadelphia. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. download a song in 4 seconds.

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stephen fincher. >> no law during the compensation of representatives shall take effect until an election of representatives shall have intervened. [ applause ] >> whoo! encore, encore! monroe doctrine! emancipation proclamation! whoo! [ bleep ]. >> oh, my goodness. 20 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times." the state department is cautioning hundreds of human rights leaders and foreign diplomats whose names have been appeared in cables by wikileaks. the u.s. has relocated handful to safer locations due to potential threats. also, the "wall street journal" writes about facebook setting the stage for an ipo.

a 100-page document sent to potential investors is the clearest signal yet that the firm is preparing to take itself public sometime next year. "san francisco chronicle," reflecting his no-frills style, political observers say it's no surprise that governor jerry brown is not planning to hire a secretary of education, instead relying on the state's superintendent for policy advice. brown did the same thing in his previous two terms. the "st. pete times," florida's new governor, rick scott says he's open to a plan that would allow las vegas-style casino resorts to operate in tampa and miami beach. "washington times," the memorial needs an update. time and weather have caused cracking in the structure's marine corps, the green finish faded to a dayne gee brown. definitely needs an upgrade. time for your business on the go. let's bring in nicole lapin at

cnbc headquarters. good morning. wall street has been waiting for this day all week. the december jobs report released in just a few hours. any idea what we can expect there? >> it's going to be a biggie. we had a nasty november report with a reading of 39,000. that was well below expectations. this week we had a great private sector reading. i was telling you about this ye yesterday. we're going into this with a mixed bag. we have a dow jones survey that calls for an increase of 150,000 jobs. we have a reuters survey that calls for an increase of 175,000 jobs. remember, guys, we need 150,000 just to break even. so the rate is supposed to tick down 9.7%. that's so marginal. but more and more people are looking to the underemployment rate. that rate is seen rising to 19% from 17% in november. so there's a lot of question. and i'd love to hear the panel's

thoughts on this, as to what the actual rate of unemployment is. >> well, the actual rate of employment, any guesses versus the numbers we have? >> the actual rate is much higher because you have underemployment and people given up looking for work. as things get better, unemployment rates could actually start going up because more people will say, hey, now there's a chance of getting a job. there's always a statistical lag there. >> one of the stupidest things that we do in this country as far as measuring, unemployment. it's unbelievable. the economy gets better, more people go into the job market and the numbers go up. >> i think you're already seeing that. i don't think we have to wait to see that. i think the fact that we see hiring among some small businesses already, but you see the unemployment number not necessarily moving so much. it is because people are already saying there may be a job out there and going back out to look for work. >> a real number, 15%

underemployment, unemployed. >> probably higher. >> nicole, what do you think? >> it's expected to uptick towards 19%. >> wow. >> people are really focused on that because more people are saying that's actually the fair value of where we're at. >> thank you, nicole. that's amazing. >> that's unsustainable as a society. >> one in five people unemployed. >> that's 1933 stuff. >> we're getting close to 1933. >> you're knocking on that. one of the things that's missed in the market run-up and the way everybody is feeling pretty good this week, this enormous disparate, all this corporate cash sitting around. they're not spending it to hire people, and so there's, once again, we've seen and al illuminated this dangerous social gap. >> but it's also -- you've got to separate the big business from the small businesses. the small businesses actually are beginning to hire people.

the big businesses are sitting on their profits and saying we're going to wait to see how things shake out. >> we had fred smith, the head of fedex yesterday was saying because of some of the changes in taxes, the ability to depreciate much faster, he is now beginning to make spending decisions that he would not have made before this bill was passed a few weeks ago. you're beginning to see business react to the changing economic, regulatory and tax environment. >> that's a great example. over the past two years, people have said, what could the president do to create jobs? there's nothing a president can do. and then the president, back pushed up against the wall said, you know what i'm going to do? i'm going to push form 100% depreciation for business purchases in 2011. suddenly everybody is saying, this is the year we're going to buy stuff because you can deduct it all as a loss your first year. that is aggressive and that's going to create growth. >> it may create growth and

profits. may not necessarily create jobs. they're not necessarily spending that money to hire people. they're acquiring things. >> getting stuff. >> they're getting stuff. >> really quickly. let's say a company decides to buy a jet that they wouldn't normally buy because, well, you can depreciate 100%. counted it as a loss. you buy a $10 million debt, the government is basically giving you $3.5 million to buy the jet because you can deduct it. there are people in kansas that build that jet. >> there are people that fly the jet. >> or they have a backorder of those jets. they may not necessarily be building a new jet because you ordered one. that's the problem. >> that's interesting. let's get to politico. with us for the politico playbook is politico's editor in chief john harris. we're talking about the incoming white house chief of staff. it's been rumored that bill daley wants a woman to be the next press secretary. who are some of the contenders? i like it. >> this has been one of

washington's great -- it's been known for a while that robert gibbs has been leaving. one thing we didn't know is that bill daley feels it would be a good thing for the west wing to have a woman up there at the white house press podium. some names we hear are karen finney, a familiar face for those of you who watch cable. who doesn't watch cable. she's a former aid to hillary clinton, former dnc press secretary. we also hear stephanie cutter, john kerry's press secretary in 2004 and has been working for the obama administration. one name i hear is bring back dee dee myers. if you can bring back gene sperling, why not bring dee dee myers back from the clinton white house. very poised, intelligent and experienced. >> norah o'donnell, what do you think? >> i'm pro woman, of course.

you're asking me? i think there are a lot of great women, and i think that's certainly a concern in the press operation and the press. but i think that -- i talked to a pretty senior white house person yesterday who think they're probably putting a lot more names out there to flatter people and also to makt it look perhaps like daley gets a choice in this. but i think it's going to come back to the original flames we heard to pre place gibbs, people that have been there for a long time. >> i agree with that, joe. two names we've heard the most of, jay carney from vice president biden's office or bill burton, the deputy white house press secretary. i don't think those guys are out of contention by any means. >> bill burton, he's a guy that obviously was on the campaign the entire time. if obama likes people close to him, you'd think the edge would go to bill, right? >> there's certain logic. bill is a very talented guy and he's been with obama.

we can have fun with this for another week or so. >> john harris, thank you very much. up next, why robert gibbs says he might toilet paper the white house. also, the emotional reunion between internet sensation ted williams and his mother. > and why soon he'll be collecting -- i can't even say this. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] 95% of all americans aren't getting enough whole grain. but actually, it's easier than you think, because general mills big g line of cereals is america's number one source of whole grain at breakfast. there's whole grain in every box... ♪ ...from chex... to cheerios... to lucky charms. so you can get the whole grain you want with the taste you love. get started on the whole grain you're missing with your favorite big g cereals. make sure to look for the white check.

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welcome back to "morning joe." live shot of times square. >> see what the "new york post" wrote on this cover? "new york post." memo to mike, it's going to snow today. post alerts city. everyone is a smart ass. >> kind of a serious story. the new york region bracing for more snow, the second winter storm in two weeks in an area recovering from a post christmas blizzard. yesterday morning city mayor michael bloomberg under fire for his response to last month's storm which left some streets unplowed for a week, pledged a better response.

a new maris poll shows how bloomberg handled the response, 21% approve while 71% disapprove. big surprise. >> has the investigation -- is it being conducted? do you believe there's a slowdown, charles? >> something happened. >> who knows? i wasn't out there plowing snow myself. >> "new york times." come on. take a stand. take a stand. >> fascinating about decision making. >> exactly right. whether it's in the gulf oil spill or the new york sanitation thing. you've got all these elaborate systems in place. but it's very hard for people to make the decision f. you make the decisions to make it an emergency or you make a decision to shut it down, it's incredible expensive. if you're wrong, people will say, why did you make that decision? you cost us gazillions of dollars. only afterwards we say, gee, you should have made those big decisions. it's very hard for human beings at the heat of the moment with

these elaborate decisions, lots of tradeoffs to make them. only afterwards does it look so clear. here now we'll do all these preparations for this big snowstorm in new york which odds are will not happen. the people will say saturday and sunday, gee, why did you spend all this money you didn't need to spend on this snowstorm. >> not necessarily. you'll never get in trouble for keeping the snow off the street. you will never -- people will never vote against you because you kept the streets clean, no matter how much that cost. bp is a little different story. it goes to show how kind of nuts and bolts people's opinions are. things that touch my life, make it right. if there's snow around my car and i can't get out of my door, make it right. and that is the biggest lesson for i think the mayor to learn. >> a little interesting on a third term. >> and a lessen, also, jon meacham to the power of the personal touch for a politician. >> it's such an opportunity to work it. >> where cory booker did an extraordinary job. politicians use moments like

this to really show they're connected. others look very different. >> a smart thing to do whether it's contrived or not. so chris has asked me to go to the next story. i guess i've been overruled. >> what about john? >> go ahead meacham. >> i think it's remarkable that politicians aren't crazier. they're pretty crazy as it is. you've been in government. you've been in government. everyone is a brilliant expert who doesn't have responsibility. hindsight is 20/20. >> so true. >> but i'll tell you what. in cases like this, no politician has ever gotten in trouble for going 90 miles an hour. i always told people that asked me what's the secret? i say they never stop you if you're going 90 miles an hour. mike bloomberg i think has been

a great mayor. >> yeah. >> i know what i'm going to say next is going to make him bristle, but rudy giuliani, here comes the words, you know rudy giuliani would be holding a press conference while the blizzard was coming down and plows would be going all over the place, and like cory booker, he would be going out banging on windows waking people up. we saw it at 9/11. jeb bush is another great exam, right? >> sure. giuliani is sort of the modern master of this. people like jindal in louisiana learned from that during the oil spill. >> cory booker, best example. >> you get the guys with the jackets and you get the cameras going. in the larger sense, it is remarkable. the culture of criticism is so relentless that it's really maddening for the people in power. >> it is. >> boom berg has done a damn

great job. managing an unmanageable city. i know no more, but i just want to say that it has to be managed. >> he's crying, interesting. >> he wants to get to this crying story. >> he can't help himself. new research may help explain how men -- this is interesting, the study was done this way and not the opposite way, how men react to crying women. according to a study published in the "journal of science," men who smell a woman's tears experience a dip in both sexual arousal and testosterone. the effect occurred even when men studied didn't see the women crying and didn't know what they were sniffing were tears. the results of the first to suggest humans chemically communicate with tears. i suggest they do the study about men crying because, trust me, they cry. >> we see that. >> let me tell you something.

>> i'm sure health insurance companies would actually then fund some sort of pill for it. >> you know what my wife says about me crying? she says don't do it. don't cry. you're not allowed to cry. you have to be the strong one. >> scarboroughs don't cry. >> actually if i do, i run out into the house in the back, into the snow, silently so my wife doesn't hear. >> you want to see a grown man cry, come to one of our friday meetings. >> norah, respond to this, gi es. >> gender politics. >> absolutely. i think this merits -- i think donny deutsch should join us on a discussion about men crying and what is it -- something about sexual arousal, right? he's the perfect person to join in this discussion. >> i'll remember not to do that. >> he's coming up. >> is donny going to be here? >> what a ridiculous study. >> if it's true --

>> do you not like the truth. >> charles, don't. just don't go there. >> i'm letting it go, mika. >> can i go back to bloomberg? >> i was much more comfortable talking about snow removal. >> i hope chris is happy. still ahead, former new york city mayor rudy giuliani and donny. also this morning's must-read opinion pages. keep it here on "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. for three hours a week, i'm a coach. but when i was diagnosed with prostate cancer... i needed a coach. our doctor was great, but with so many tough decisions i felt lost. unitedhealthcare offered us a specially trained rn who helped us weigh and understand all our options. for me cancer was as scary as a fastball is to some of these kids. but my coach had hit that pitch before.

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hi mommy, hi mommy, hi

mommy. i know i feel the same way, mommy. i love you. i want everyone to see you. >> we have breaking news to announce tonight of your relationship to this network. >> okay. >> you are going to be one of the voices of our lean forward campaign for msnbc's advertising campaign for the network. >> oh, goodness. >> msnbc, the place for politics. let's hear it -- >> msnbc, the place for politics. >> fantastic. >> i'm late for a meeting. i'm going to just -- i'll see you on monday, okay? >> okay. welcome back to "morning joe." 44 past the hour. are you going to be okay? lean forward, big buddy. >> time for the must-read op eds. >> tears of a clown.

>> really? >> yes, really. it's called a good story. >> okay. >> yes. it's a good story. i always worry about good stories actually, because they kind of get out of hand. >> actually, i've got a brainstorm. we need a new political producer, right in washington, and we're looking for one. i'm going to go to washington and i'm going to look at abandoned vans down by the river. maybe we can get a political producer down there. >> it's a good story. >> you're the one that wanted to leave him under the bridge. >> no, i did not. i did not. i actually thought the sports job was really cool. at some point things get out of hand and they go to oprah and

whatever. let's talk about the effort to repeal obama's health care reform bill which some call obamacare and i get blasted on twitter for saying that because it says i'm putting forward the republican talking points and this president should be very proud of what he's done. >> are they ashamed of that, by the way? >> they shouldn't be. >> i guess progressives that attack you for calling it obamacare -- >> it is a proud accomplishment of the first two years. >> reaganomics. >> insuring 32 million more americans is a good thing. call me crazy. >> if you want to accuse me of supporting reaganomics, i will say guilty as charged. i wonder why these progressives who are attacking you for calling it obamacare are ashamed of this health care legislation that they said was so wonderful. >> i think the republicans are trying to make it sound dirty

using that word. >> what do you think democrats have done with reaganomics? >> i don't think insuring millions of americans is dirty. buckle round two by david brooks from "the new york times." republicans are going to have to move behind their current repeal poster and cohere behind a positive alternative. one approach is to allow state ex-permutation, another approach, under this approach, the republicans are a role in subsidizing health insurance. after the trauma of the last two years many people wish the issue would go away. it's not going away, especially since costs will continue to rise. some congresses achieve health care. mem brebers of this congress or next one will have health care thrust upon them. i'm add to this the cbo gave a report sent to john boehner yesterday saying health care repeal would deepen the deficit

by about $230 billion over the next decade. >> that's real money. >> you know what concerns me on health care is the fact that both parties in the past, the president talking about cutting medicaid -- we need to be honest about this. there are two americas, john edwards is right. when it comes to health care there are two americas. the poor and working class live in a different world than the middle class and the upper middle class. charles, i'm afraid that they're going to go to medicaid for cuts instead of going where the costs are exploding. that is one test after another after another. >> i think the republicans are going about this completely the wrong way. you can amend and amend legislation. that's how legislation -- that's what happens to pieces of legislation in this country.

taking it that route would have been the smarter way to deal with it. this repeal thing is a big, big problem. not only would it explode the deficit. it's not going to happen. you're going to lose. losing always looks bad. and i think more importantly, this idea of putting democrats in a position of saying i'm protecting your rights on the privilege is a loser for them. >> you know what i would like actually democrats to do? i would be really proud if they would step up and say damn right, we're trying to give people health care insurance so kids don't have to sit in emergency rooms at 2:00 in the morning -- >> andy card is coming up. >> if they were smart, they would let the courts deal wit. so we're on the serengeti, and seth finds a really big bone. we're talking huge. they dig it up, put it in the natural history museum and we get to name it. sethasauraus. really. your points from chase sapphire preferred are worth 25% more on travel?

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so wiley is not here, but he did his "week in review." >> if you look at the bylines of "morning joe," if for some reason willie cannot fulfill the duties of class clown, then it has to be a pulitzer prize winner that steps in and does the "week in review." >> we found this guy under a bridge coddling his pulitzer prize. >> here it is. >> this is a "morning joe" 25th

amendment, in the absence of willie geist, vanned built's finest. >> give us your baritone voice. >> are you ready? from the founding anchor and seoul viewer often of "way too early" willie geist, "the week in review." >> when you're listening to nothing but the best of oldies, you're listening to magic 98.9. >> at number three, the voice by the side of the road. >> tomorrow morning is your chance to win a pair of tickets. >> a homeless man with an i'm possibly smooth set of pipes was discovered this week harding a cardboard sign along interstate 71 in columbus, ohio. >> we'll make you work grour dollar. say something with with that great radio voice. >> the video clip of ted williams performing on an exit ramp whipped across the country leading to a whirl wind of interviews. >> cleveland cavaliers offered me a full-time job and a house.

>> williams also got a "today show" trip to new york where he was reunited with his moth sgler from nbc news, this is to "today" with matt lauer and meredith vieira. >> the feel good, how the hell did that voice come from that body element of the story drew comparisons to susan boyle. >> ♪ i dream the dream in time gone by ♪ >> ted williams riding his velvety voice from homelessness to a job, a home. >> we'll be back with more right after these words. at number two, the stickup, an unconventional robbery at a convenient store in manassas, virginia, where the subject barged in wielding a giant tree limb. face washington, d.c. the pruned branch the clerk counterred with

a hammer and the dramatic standoff was on. the robber eventually got away with the cash, proving the old adage, you don't bring a carpenter's hammer to a giant tree limb fight. and the number one story of the week -- >> i pass this gavel and the sacred trust that goes with it. god bless you, speaker boehner. >> yes, the shift in the balance of washington power was news worthy. but the 112th congress was overshadowed this week by a slightly more important development, the arrival of the end of times. the first reports that the apocalypse was upon was came from arkansas where thousands of birds died suddenly in flight on new year's eve and reigned down from the heavens to the earth below. >> i saw a little black thing here and there and there and

said wait mant, what is that? >> the initial explanation was that the birds were shocked to death by fireworks. but the rest of us knew we were watching precisely what the mayans predicted centuries ago with their famous 2011 prophesy. it was 2011, right? then more dead birds in louisiana, kentucky and across the world in sweden. fish washing ashore from the chesapeake bay to the beaches of brazil. and then in the final sign that the end was near, snooki released a book. >> you are a [ bleep ] slutty -- >> i will attack you like a squirrel monkey. >> the only hope for humanity is a baritone messiah returning to us from columbus, ohio. >> we'll be right back after these words. ♪ then a hero comes along

>> richard haass, norah o'donnell, thank you. lesley stahl, next.

provided you believe the president is an american citizen, you've got 12 members co-sponsoring legislation that does about the same thing, it expresses doubt. would you be willing to say this is a distraction, i've looked at it to my satisfaction, let's move on. >> the state of hawaii has said that president obama was born there. that's good enough for me.

>> would you be willing to say that message to the 12 members in your caucus who seem to either believe otherwise or are willing to express doubt and have co-sponsored legislation -- >> brian, when you come to the congress of the united states, there are 435 of us. we're nothing more than a slice of america. people come regardless of party labels, they come with all kinds of beliefs and ideas. it's the melting pot of america. it's not up to me to tell them what to think. >> okay. coming down in new york city, top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." that's john boehner's interview with brian williams. a lot came out of that interview. interesting discussion about smoking as well. we'll get to that. jon meacham and charles blow are still with us. joining us now, correspondent for "60 minutes." and co-founder of an incredible website. >> changed my life.

>> lesley stahl is with us. in washington, former white house chief of staff for george w. bush, andy card. >> he changed my life. he changed my life. >> lesley, you interviewed him, you made him break down and weep. >> i didn't make him break down and weep. i wasn't even tough. i didn't say anything and he started to cry. >> why? >> he cried -- the first time he cried with me was in a church in his hometown and he was talking about his childhood. seems to be the major trigger for his tears. >> his childhood. >> it's an amazing story. >> it's rags to riches, come up from nothing, all of that. but i've spoken to so many psychologists, some have called me, i've called them to figure out why does he cry all the time, which he does. >> why has he just started to cry? >> no. he's been crying a lot.

>> let me tell you something, i've known john since 1994. i've never seen him cry up until the past couple months. >> you weren't watching. the camera hasn't always been on him. when we went back and looked at the old footage, we have a lot to choose from. he was on the house floor crying. nancy pelosi once made a comment "john cries all the time." we went to find out how much footage there was. >> didn't his wife say in your interview that he didn't cry too much? >> no, no, she didn't. she said you have to understand this is a very emotional time for him. some people, these psychologists have told me there are people who are easy cryers. we know them and their wives will often say he cries on commercials. one person said, you know what, this could be hereditary. >> i wonder if there is a female reaction to that. i'm sorry, there wasn't a study on that. >> let's play a clip of john

boehner. >> brian asked him about that. >> is he going to cry? >> you're an emotional guy. a lot of us are. you know this before i even mention it. it's been the main topic of conversation, and that is your emotions. do you understand why it's so much a topic of discussion, and do you worry at all about it being a distraction, especially during times of high moment? >> no. listen, it's who i am. there are some things i feel very strongly about. when it comes to kids, when it comes to my own family, soldiers, i feel very strongly that i want america to be the country that i grew up in. >> he started to there. let's go to washington right now. hold on a second. andy card is a very emotional guy.

let's get an iso on andy and see how strong he is. ready? 1986, hold on. bill buckner -- let's try this -- bucky dent? 2003. anything? anything? >> i was crying when they were reading the constitution yesterday on the floor of the house. >> there you go. you love america too much. >> i do. i love america. >> let's talk about john boehner and the republicans and how they've actually -- they've certainly surprised me these first few weeks, kept their heads down an haven't repeated mistakes that a lot of republicans have made over the past few decades. >> well, i hope they're taking office with humility. it is a humbling experience to be a member of congress and to have responsibility for husbanding the resources of america, not the least of which would be the taxes that people pay to the government to keep us safe. so, yeah, it's a big deal. you know what a big deal it is

to raise your hand and take that oath of office. i hope they're humbled as they do it. but they have the courage to stand tall and do what they think is right. they also do point out that everybody in america is represented in congress. they can have lots of different views. that's a good thing. >> jon? >> andy, you've served two bush administrations in which there have been divided governmentat various points in those two -- three terms, two presidencies. how does this one feel to you in historical terms? does the atmosphere suggest cooperation or confrontation? >> i think the jury is still out on that. right now the atmosphere is -- i wonder, i don't know what's going to happen. the last election was a very big deal because it demonstrated a change in what america wants from washington, d.c., and the change america wants is not just in the house of representatives or not just in the senator not

just at the white house. they want a change from washington, the collective institutions of washington? they want them to be more sensitive. they want them to pay attention to where the money is going. they want to pay attention to the values in america. they also want to pay attention to priorities, getting america back to work. >> lesley, let me ask you, a lot of people underestimated him. didn't think he would be able to handle the house with the tea party members and fighting back and forth. how is he doing? >> you said at the beginning of the broadcast -- you said you were surprised. two things, one is that he has said that everything he's learned he learned from his growing up, and he was the grownup in his family. he wasn't the oldest. he disciplined all the older children. he's even said publicly i know how to deal with unruly

children. he's referred to these new republicans -- there are 80 new republicans, a lot of them are tea partiers. he has said i know how to deal with them and made the analogy. number two, his biggest, most seminal experience was working with newt gingrich. newt gingrich overplayed his hand. and i asked him if he learned anything. actually newt himself said, you know, boehner ought to study what i did. and i asked him that. he said, oh, i have, i've studied what he did. i said, what did you learn? he said the first thing i learned was it's not about me. but he also learned just what andy card was saying. he learned he has to present himself with humility. that's the main thing that he's doing. he's not overplaying his hand and he won't. and i predict that you will see him try to lead those republicans to compromise because that's what newt didn't do. that's his biggest lesson. >> we'd love to get your

insight, lesley from your years covering the white house and andy's from his years serving. gene sperling will replace larry summers who left to return to harvard. also the president tapped chicago business executive bill daley to be his new chief of staff yesterday. first of all, lesley what do you think of the daley choice? >> i think it's fascinating at all levels. the business experience, obviously important. one little point, and i don't know if president obama had it in mind. but the chemistry between obama and the republican leaders isn't that great. it's not personal. they don't get each other. >> right, exactly. >> i think bill daley seems like the kind of guy that boehner could, joe, kind of towel snap with. >> that's an interesting point. >> really relate to in a personal way. >> how important is that, andy? this president doesn't seem to

connect very well with republicans on the hill. daley has, daley will, and with the business community. how important is this choice sdm. >> i think it's a pretty important choice. i'm a big bill daley fan. he was the chairman of the gore campaign. done evans and he ended up becoming pretty close friends, not just because they both had been commerce secretaries, but both very actively involved in presidential campaigns. i watched them and sat in on negotiations to debate the negotiations and the presidential debates. i think bill daley is an interesting choice. i hope he has the true confidence and council with the president that's necessary to be a good chief of staff. it's not just what you do outside, but the relationship where the president that makes a big difference. i'm a bill daley fan, he'll do a good job as chief of staff. i think he has better peripheral vision than a lot of people at the white house right now. that's very important. >> andy, how much does chemistry

matter in governing? >> personal relationships count for an awful lot and trust, keeping your word. my experience with bill daley was that he always kept his word. i didn't always agree with his word but he kept it. he was honorable and responsible before he gave his word. so i found that he was very easy to work with. but the test is going to be how will president obama and his chief of staff interact? they do not have a strong close relationship. i'm a little concerned about still the chicago crowd. i was chief of staff and i was from massachusetts and everybody else was from texas. so i think it was good to have a little different perspective sometimes. >> in this case, though, jon meacham, i'm certainly pleased that you have somebody that went through -- worked in past administrations, that went through something like gore v bush. it's always important to have

somebody go through a seismic political event where everybody is screaming and their hair is on fire and you hear it's the end of the world, and then it's over and you wake up the next day and you see government still running and now you've got to work with all those people that you were fighting just a few days earlier let's face it. barack obama brought a lot of people to washington, d.c. that didn't have that experience. >> it seems to me one of the keys historically, and andy can speak to this firsthand, is a sense of proportion. that is, when do you hit the panic button? when do you go into overdrive? and when do you think, this is going to burn for two hours. >> i've seen this forest fire. let me tell you what happens. it burns for a couple days. nobody gets hurt. you sit back and relax. >> or when is it, frankly, katrina or something really that requires serious action? and i think -- bill daley, yes,

he's been through bush v. gore. he also comes from a household of one of the great mayors in the history of the united states. mayor daley understood snow. >> here we go. >> mayor daley -- he's seen it at the precinct level, at the ward level, he's seen it at supreme court level, the president. >> his brother, an extraordinary mayor of chicago. >> where does this leave progressives, charles, progressives who will feel betrayed by the taxes, feel betrayed by sperling, who feel betrayed by the selection of a banker, jpmorgan chase banker as chief of staff? >> it may leave a little nasty aftertaste in the mouth. now that you have an opposition who is actually in power, when you see your enemy up close, it makes you realize who your real friends are, even if you don't agree with them all the time.

listening to bill maher, he says you have to know the difference between the enemy that wants to destroy you and the friend who disappoints you. i think once you see up close what the republican agenda is and they start to act on that agenda, what obama does in terms of moving a little bit towards the center becomes less important than stopping what you see as the real problem. >> as charles suggested last hour, the 2012 campaign is under way and there aren't a lot of progressives going, should i vote for palin or huckabee, to express my disappointment? it's not going to happen. >> andy card, thank you so much. good to see you. next a preview of "meet the press" with david gregory and chuck todd with this morning's headlines out of washington. later brian williams joins us to talk about his exclusive interview with boehner. and rudy giuliani weighs in on may your bloomberg's handling of the blizzard, the last one. first here is bill karins with

more on today's storm. bill? >> thanks, mika. we're watching light snow breaking out along the pennsylvania-new jersey border. who headlines. snow totals have been lowered, maybe one to three inches from philly to boston. that's it on i-95. the snow moved in earlier, but that also means it will move out sooner. philadelphia, moderate snow right now. that will be in new york city as we go throughout the mid morning. as far as what we're dealing with otherwise, snowshowers back by pittsburgh, buffalo and other areas. as i mentioned, the snow totals are not very impressive. only one to three. northern new england will get more. as we go throughout the day, it will progress towards boston. and the other headlines, cold conditions back in the northern plains. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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you have to understand that in my opinion obamacare is the biggest job killer we have in america today. it's a weight over every employer that we have, thereby requiring them to hold back their willingness to hire people. secondly, i believe that obamacare will ruin the best health care delivery system in the world. thirdly, i think it will bankrupt our country. >> welcome back. still with us, lesley stahl and the anchor and managing editor of "nbc nightly news," brian williams, the man who almost made john boehner cry. in washington, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory and at the white house political director and co-host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. >> i always feel like i'm interrupting a ski vacation.

>> put a tie on and you're a former member of congress. you use that to parade around. his answer on smoking, it is what it is. his answer on personality, i am who i am. we'll hear a lot of that. >> it was a revealing interview. >> i'm telling you it's un-newt gingrich. >> it's un-newt gingrich. it sure is un-barack obama. you have a west wing -- someone said this to me in tlaft 48 hours. you have a west wing that's mixed greens and gray poupon and the spearer's office is very central ohio -- i talked about short track car race being a bunch of aides to boehner, one of whom was a fellow fan of dale earnhardts who said i cried for three days when earnhardt died at daytona.

another aide to boehner said, because she had been reading her history, this is the way it's supposed to work, the people's house. he comes from the ribs of the state of ohio. >> speaking of greg poupon, let's go to david gregory. what has been your take over the last couple days of john boehner stepping into this position? how has he handled it? >> brian has it right. there is this austerity campaign that boehner, who a lot of people see as a country club republican with a stiff drink in his hand, working the circuit of fundraisers and all that, really trying to reflect where the country is right now, which is no great love affair with republicans. they want to see republicans come in and get back to first principles. the whole reading of the contusion reflecting the tea party case base now and deal with spending, deal with the size of government. i think he wants to have a deliberately low profile. look, you see on both ends of pennsylvania avenue all of the ramping up for 2012. republicans want to fight this

health care battle anew because they want to use it for 2012, the president just named bail daily as a nod to business, a more centrist path as he tries to get independents back. you these dual narratives taking place here. >> we want to bring in chuck todd as well. chuck, i'm interested in expanding on a point made earlier about the chemistry between john boehner and the new chief of staff bail daley? do you see a connection that perhaps the white house was lacking before? >> reporter: it's not just boehner. mitch mcconnell, lindsay graham. the most pollsive comments about daley didn't come from democrats. they came from republicans. mitch mcconnell called it a sign of hope. clearly you see republicans at least publicly saying, look, this is a guy we can deal with. this is somebody we've been complaining that there's nobody from business, that there's

nobody who has been there -- i think mitch mcconnell used the line, we didn't think there was anybody there that had ever run a lemonade stand. we're glad to see that they picked somebody like bill daley there. what i found interesting is, despite their -- you see some criticism from the left in the blogosphere. you're not really seeing a ton of anger from the leading liberal elected officials. >> brian, what was your overall take of john boehner? newt gingrich -- when you interviewed gingrich in '94-'95, you knew this was something he sought his entire life, a much different man, as lesley said than john boehner. what do you pick up from bane sner. >> politics aside, nut gingrich was kind of the nation's historian. so many answers he would begin with the words, what you have to understand is. that's just not at all john

boehner's way. again, he keeps using phrases like i am who i am, i haven't changed, it is what it is. >> i tried to quit smoking, but not for a while. >> yeah, ten terms -- look, i know the type. what i was alluding to in my question is, i have a brother who is a big fan of filterless camel cigarettes, a builder out west. it is what it is. he is who he is. the personality type is very familiar to me. >> that business of newt's seeking to be a leered his whole life, i think there's something very deceptive about boehner and his manner, that humble manner. he told me he sought the speakership for years -- the minute newt gingrich was out -- the point to make is he was newt's lieutenant, he was in the leadership then. he told me the minute that happened and gingrich was out and he was out, he decided he was going to fight his way back to be speaker and that he

assaulted it and worked for it, quiet, built it slowly, planned it, thought it through meticulously. >> david gregory, in 1998 lesley talked about newt gets bumped out of town, boehner gets pumped out of power. i think most of us in congress at the time thought that was the end of john boehner. he sure fought back, didn't he. >> look at the work he did under the radar when he wasn't on the cover of "time" magazine and he wasn't being talked about this way. i remember covering the bush white house. he was integral on working on no child left behind with president bush. he ran a very disciplined operation keeping the republicans in line when president bush was in power. he's been laying this groundwork for this for a long time. >> brian, you got the first interview with boehner as speaker. how did that come about? was it their choice to an extent? >> as lesley knows, none of these happen by accident. >> highly competitive.

>> yes. >> he sent him a carton of cigarettes. >> you have to become a pain in someone's life, a constant presence n. the end the interview is a relenting on their part because otherwise you're going to stay on the lawn if they don't like your cameras. >> be a pain. >> that's a term of art, an stlee term. >> i think i know it. >> chuck todd, talk about bill daley and then the selection of sperling. you have here two selections where barack obama is doing something that he hasn't done for two years. he's getting out of his comfort zone. he's bringing people into the white house that aren't necessarily in his inner circle. >> i think that's what makes this choice for a lot of -- a lot of back seat drivers on president obama about how he's run this white house, how he's run the west wing, too insular, too many, too that. he did this chief of staff search. this wasn't in cahoots with

david axelrod and valerie jarrett. he did this. he may have reached to outside folks to get some input. he did this on his own, with some input -- i'm not saying staff didn't have input. this was his decision. he chose to go outside his comfort zone. i don't know in bill daley would have been the first choice of everybody inside the west wing. this is a case of this is where the president wanted to go. he's got to figure out how not just to work in washington, but to use the cabinet better. by the way, a former cabinet secretary in bill daley will figure out how to use the cabinet better. they didn't do that very well the first two years, and how to be more responsive outside of washington. i'm not talking about just to the public. i'm talking about to mayors, to governors. that's what matters come 2012 re-election time. >> jon mech chapel, if you look back at presidents who have made mid-term corrections, a lot of us go back to clinton in '94.

bill clinton didn't turn this quickly on a time. we had a government shutdown 11 months after gingrich was put in. the battle continued. clinton vetoed welfare reform three times our second year there. barack obama has turned about as quickly on a time as anybody i've ever seen. >> well, i think it's -- as we've argued, i think it was a principled turn. >> do you really? >> i do. >> he's jack kemp as far as taxes go. >> jack kemp, i went and saw him at a white house event and he walked up and said, you know how fleeting fame is. somebody said, hey, senator dodd, how are you? >> he's got the hair. >> he had a good sense of it. >> i think by alienating his base on the bush tax cuts, it was a principled concession of a scale with president bush's 1990

deal where he did what he thought was right for the country at political cost. and right now, as chuck says, progressives are going to be very upset and are about bail daley. but that's like republicans being upset about james baker. these are people who make big things work. >> where do they go? >> joe, i want to make the point, i think this does boil down to something pragmatic and simple which is i'm sure there's a metric inside the white house about where the president stands for re-election, vis-a-vis the unemployment rate. how high it is and where he can still be re-elected. it's all about moving the needle on the economy, getting more confidence in business to start hiring again. it's affecting policy, communication. it's greater outreach to the midwest. you look at all of those areas, this is a guy who can help the president enormously in those departments. >> this morning, nicole lapin suggested that the real unemployment number is close to

20%. as jon meacham said, these are 1933 levels. >> we've been hearing that, we've been hearing this tomb number. americans write e-mails to us saying you want to see the actual number? come out where we are. one more point about bill daley. before banking was this dirty a word, i ran across a note last night from richard holbrooke on credit suisse first boston letterhead. you remember the moving gently between the banking community and either state craft. >> moving gently is a nice way to put it. >> this was going back to fdr's kitchen cabinet. this has been part of a grand tradition. the problem is that line of work isn't so grand looking these days. >> something about obama that strikes me, and i think we've even talked about it here, is

that he sometimes steps back after big things -- after things go wrong for him as this election did. he hundredors down and he thinks, and i think he went and hibernated and made a huge change, as he did in the campaign and as he did before health care, and he came out with a new perspective. i think it's part of the way he operates. he seems to disappear. it's like he's on the ropes. he takes the punches and then he comes out and things are different. he changes. he's done it repeatedly. it's serial. >> what's so fascinating, and i know you've covered many white houses and you have and stud did it. it's so fascinating whether it's barack obama losing at a midterm and making the connections that recenters him with america or bill clinton doing it in '94 or george bush. people forget george bush in '06 fired donald rumsfeld the day after democrats took control.

>> i remember that. >> it's so fascinating. you always wonder why they don't do it before the election. chuck, i'm sorry. we cut you off before. >> no. i was going to -- peter harr, he had a great observation about president obama that i want to steal. the guy is an adopter. that's what he is. he's still ideological. he's got a set of principled beliefs, but an adapter to what he's got to deal with. the president himself said it right before the end of the year during the whole tax cut fight. he said i've got a north star, but sometimes you've got to zigzag to get there. so i don't think this is a, like, crazy move, bill daley. in a weird way it actually sort of fits. >> brian, this weekend "meet the press" always has the best stuff going. we always ask david what he has. tonight i understand you are actually going to be doing a

special on a strange and exotic land, brooklyn. >> boy, do we get some tension when i was last at the table talking about the new york sometimes discovery of brooklyn. >> this is a live shot of a strange and foreign land called brooklyn. >> look at that. maybe some of the native peoples will emerge and they'll be cure ating things. >> people say nation building doesn't work. it's an amazing place. >> look at that. >> david, who do you have this weekend on "meet the press"? >> an exclusive interview with harry read, the leader of the democrats in the senate. first time on "meet the press" since january 2009. a few things have happened since then. >> and chuck todd at 9:00, what blockbuster guests do you have on "the daily rundown"? >> austan goolsbee, and we'll

talk about the jobs reports and some guy sitting at your table, he got up today like he's going to show up and do our show. >> i'm basically like the shutting, just keep flying. >> thank you, guys. up later we'll bring in lawrence o'donnell and eugene robinson. standing by in the green room, his return to "morning joe" rudy giuliani and donny. >> donny, please don't touch america's mayor. >> oh, my eyes. we'll be right back. back in the 80's, it was really tough for me and my family. i was living on welfare and supporting a family of four. after i got the job at walmart, things started changing immediately. then i wrote a letter to the food stamp office. "thank you very much, i don't need your help any more." you know now, i can actually say i bought my home. i knew that the more i dedicated... the harder i worked, the more it was going to benefit my family. this my son, mario and he now works at walmart. i believe mario is following in my footsteps. my name is noemi, and i work at walmart.

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welcome back to "morning joe." quick weather update. meteorology bill karins. obviously snow falling at this hour new york city to philadelphia. the airports are starting to get backed up. in philadelphia, there's a traffic management program in effect. whatever that means. in other words, they'll have delays in and out of philly. that's where they're getting moderate snow. the roads are very slippery down the jersey turnpike and i-95. newark airport is not allowing any flights to take off. that heavy snow band will shift into the new york area, new york city in the next hour or two. the tale end of the morning rush

hour will be treacherous across new jersey. the heavier band of snow is delaware. d.c. you're clear. there's one little burst of snow, heavy when it falls, philadelphia you're getting it now. by the time you're done, two inches or so. new york city, same for you. upstate new york, the snow will be heavier. we'll um date you on the airport delays and the treacherous travel problems along i-95 as we go throughout the morning. coming up next, former new york mayor rudy giuliani, and my wife's favorite, donny deutsch. l your blood sugar. you exercise and eat right, but your blood sugar may still be high, and you need extra help. ask your doctor about onglyza, a once daily medicine used with diet and exercise to control high blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. adding onglyza to your current oral medicine may help reduce after meal blood sugar spikes and may help reduce high morning blood sugar.

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while i realize there were problems with the city's snow cleaning efforts, last week we want to assure all new yorkers that we're doing everything in our power to make sure we don't

experience those kind of problems again. we plan to do a great job, the kind of job the public has come to expect us to do. >> that was mayor michael bloomberg promising new york city is ready to face the snow today. with us, a man that knows something about dealing with such thing. as jon meacham said earlier, he's the absolute best at it. former mayor of new york and former republican candidate for president, rudy giuliani. also with us, chairman of deutsch, inc. donny deutsch. and lesley stahl still here as well. mr. mayor, let's begin. obviously michael bloomberg got slammed unmercifully for the last snowstorm. >> it's new york. >> you understand the glare of the bright lights. was it fair, all the abuse he took? >> it's overdone. it's overdone. >> that's not what you said in the green room. you were cussing at him. >> not true, not true. >> i say to him, this is like a

playbook. how does that happen? >> it was overdone. it was a big mistake. i don't know exactly the nature. >> what was the big mistake? >> i don't know. i can give you a couple of possibilities, didn't declare a snow emergency when i think the predictions were a pretty decent amount of snow, didn't get the plows out on time, sounds like. if there was a slowdown, and i'm not sure there was -- i would doubt it. i know the sanitation department, it doesn't sound right to me. you should have picked it up. if there was a shedown -- >> plats the playbook? it's 2:00 in the morning, what's going on. >> you get a report every hour. the reports say how many primary streets were plowed, how many secondary streets, how many tertiary streets. every borough, every street, this is computerized. this isn't guesswork anymore. you know if streets weren't plowed. >> do you have to call an emergency ahead of time? >> yeah. you call an emergency ahead of

time so they can remove the cars. part of the problem was they didn't call an emergency ahead of time so when they went to plow, cars, trucks, other things were blocking areas that had to be plowed efficiently. you can still plow it, but it doubles the amount of time to do that. you play that out in a city of eight million people, you double the time for one truck and all of the sudden, if that's happening with ten, it gets out of control. >> you have to be on top of it from the very beginning. you know the storm is coming. you would always declare the merging early and everybody would get out there. >> everybody has strengths and weaknesses, mike has been an excellent mayor. >> and has done the blizzards well. >> he's done them well in the past. >> i was a micro manager for which i was praised and blamed. you get a lot of problems. a lot of my commissioners never liked me being the micro manager. is he really the police commissioner? i like going to the sanitation garages at 4:00 in the morning, 5:00 in the morning. >> i saw him last week knocking

on the windows of the sanitation office. >> here is what's interesting -- >> i had an uncle in the san tigs department. i had four in the police department and fire department -- four in the police department and one in the fire department. they were like my guys, like my uncles. i knew them. i used to go see them. i would try to get them credit. i would bring the press there and say these are our heroes now. they are as important to us as the police and the fire because it's a matter of life and death if they clean up the snow. applaud for them in you see them in the streets. say thank you if you see them in the streets. >> donny, i want to tell you about -- we talked a little bit about this before. the level of micromanaging. you know a heck of a lot about management. i think cab driver new year's morning early, a guy who lived here since '83 from egypt pointing to other cabs and saying when rudy giuliani was here, he would not let us get out of the garage unless we were clean. he pointed to cop cars, that would never have happened with

rudy giuliani. a lot of people might say, come on, that is micromanagement. it's the little things that add up. >> i'll draw a line to 2012, i'm sure you'll ask mr. mayor if he's running. i think that's what this country is missing with our current president. december was his home run month, he's turned it around, i love his new appointments. people want to feel whether some of it is ceremonial or it's real that people have their hands on the wheel. >> like cory booker. >> that's what rudy did. like him or not, you knew he was in there steering. >> it's more so for a mayor than a president. >> why? >> because people expect a mayor to pick up the snow, pick up the garbage. >> viscerally isn't it the same thing? >> what about a governor? >> governor less so. a governor is a little more removed. let's say a governor somewhere in the middle. the president can't really be a micro manager unless it's a major. >> let's go back to the oil

spill. you just wanted him down there. obviously it's a job -- >> he blew the oil spill. >> i'm saying it's more of the overall gestalt. >> are you talking management style or theatrics. theatrics, you can't be a leader if you're not operatic. >> when i would go and get applause for the sanitation workers, i know they families were at home watching. when they got home -- i communicated. >> you knew 12 million people were watching. that was making a statement on who you were. >> none of us were perfect. a lot of other things i blew because i was micro managing and i was too involved. i was great for emergencies and maybe not so great for other things. what i don't like about this, seriously, is mike has been a very good mayor. you don't get to judge it based on you blew it once like you don't get to judge obama's

presidency on blowing the oil spill. >> was it a miss tark on chris christie's part? >> yeah. chris should have come back. if he asked me my advice, i would have said, they elected you governor, they've got an emergency, they expect you to be there. you've got to be there if you are a governor, a mayor or even a president if it's important ? what about -- when anybody just stays a speck too long, something weird happens. what is it? why does that happen? almost every time. >> dick thornburg, when he was governor of pennsylvania, he left a very popular governor, later became attorney general, he told me that the term limits saved him from himself. and i think there's a lot. >> i'll tell you what happens. i think it's this culture. if you go to mario cuomo, ed koch, sometimes you get tired, you turn the channel. it's as simple as that. >> he made a mistake that he may

not have made in the beginning? is that possible? >> i think we give him less of a pass in a strange way. >> there is so much pressure, if you're president of the united states or governor or mayor of new york city. i remember watching george w. bush, george h.w. bush, in 1992, in the middle of that campaign. this is a guy who had been in the white house for 12 years already and you just saw halfway through the campaign, he's tired. it's hard for him to give a damin the in the middle of an interview and act like this is something he's excited about. he's tired. i did want to bring up something. >> bill clinton never got tired. >> bill clinton didn't stay 12 years in the white house. so i want to talk about theatrics for a second and i want to talk about it because we know, firsthand, the white house has contempt for, quote, thee at rehabilitation. it's extraordinarily important to inspire your sanitation workers. >> absolutely. >> to inspire your soldiers.

>> absolutely. >> it is key to governing, isn't it? >> absolutely. i knew my police department had to deal with a tremendous of crime. they had to know i had their back. they had to know that. and sometimes it got me in trouble. if a police officer did something arguably wrong, i would never condemn them until i knew for sure it was wrong. i would give them the benefit of the doubt. and i would tell them that, they knew i would do that. i had to lower their salaries, two years of no raises. i knew they would be angry at me for doing that. i had to do layoffs at times, so i had to balance that by building up their morale, by making them feel i was there for them at times where i could help. every time they got hurt, at the hospital. >> all right. >> in fairness, mayor bloomberg does that. >> absolutely. >> and he has been a very good mayor. and i can think about three or four big mistakes i made. so he made one mistake. >> well, i'm reading from the gossip pages. >> i don't want to hear from them. >> it says confident that he would have a chance to win, rudy

guiliani is rounding up his top political advisers for a possible 2012 presidential run, sources say. >> so far, i haven't found any political advisers to round up. maybe they're not listening. i haven't done that. i haven't rounded up political advisers. >> are you going to new hampshire next month? >> i may be going to -- i'm going to new hampshire a lot. but i don't have anything scheduled right now. >> it's pretty out there. >> i love -- >> i love new hampshire. >> vermont is nice, too. >> it's a great state and i love being there. i love being in the process. >> what kind of brand -- >> he can run as himself. >> thank you.

♪ i used to roll the dice feel the fear in the enemy's eyes ♪ ♪ listen as the crowd would sing ♪

kind of a hopeful sign.

he has a business background. you know, we used to -- i used to say the last two years, i don't know whether it's technically true or not, but there was nobody down at the white house who had ever even run a lemonade stand. they were all college professors and former elected officials. this is a guy who has actually been out in the private sector, been a part of business. frankly, my first reaction is, it sounds like a good idea. >> all right. that is mitch mcconnell talking about the choice of bill daley. donny deutsch is still with us. and leslie stahl and the host of msnbc's "the laughed word" lawrence o'donnell. and lawrence, i see you as a as a matter of fact man. i see auyou as one of the smartt men i do. you would watch joe and decide what to wear? >> i get the wake-up call in the hotel room, click on "joe."

because, you know -- so i descend to his level, whatever he is wearing. >> i brought people down. >> no, it's a snow day. it's a snow day in new york. come on. what do you want? >> actually, you get lawrence and myself together, we actually look like the '70s german band craft work. >> or the guys on snl. okay. >> if there was a two-shot, it would be frightening. >> we don't do two shots. >> it looks like you guys are wearing pajamas. >> so lawrence, let's talk. the president is making a couple decisions. bill daley, first of all. >> bill daley. >> and then spurling to the economic team. it seems like the progressive wing of the democratic party is in full-scale retreat right now. >> well, you know, mitch mcconnell saying bill daley is a good choice is about the worst thing -- but what's wrong with that, in and of itself, is that there is just a reactionary

set-up now. you know, that my reaction will be based on who likes him and who doesn't like him. so if mcconnell likes him, i as a progressive has to dislike him. that may not be the best guy. >> do you like him? >> i worked with him in the clinton administration. and look what we have here. we have a democratic president choosing a new white house chief of staff who is a former loyal soldier of the previous democratic president. and that appointment is greeted with outrage from democrats. and i ask you, when in our presidential history has that ever happened before? and the answer is never. that has never, ever happened. that the president has chosen a new white house chief of staff and his own party says that's an outrage. so obama is living under a level of microscopic criticism, within his own party, that we have never seen a democratic president suffer. in situations like this.

>> let me challenge you on that, because jimmy carter got to that level. because the liberals in the democratic party came around to think everything he was doing was too conservative. >> not personnel. this is personnel. i agree with you that they can have policy differences. >> that's fair. >> and is certainly, democrats attacked lbj rightfully over vietnam. policy differences is not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about he chooses a white house chief of staff and everybody is going, what are you doing? and the guy is a loyal democrat. you know, who has -- because he comes from now a banking background, and you know, the things he has done since leaving government, people get very suspicious of him. gene spurling is a liberal. this is crazy talk that gene spurling is somehow o-- i worke with gene in the white house, known him a long time. he is as progressive an economic analyst as anybody can ever ask to be in one of those positions. and somehow people -- >> has been greeted with outrage from the left. >> people do not know gene spurling.

they don't know his work. they don't know his resume. anybody who is crediting him from the left does not know what he does and thinks. >> characterize. >> first of all, he worked with me and others to do the biggest tax increase in history. let's give him some credit for that. >> yes, let's do that. >> come on. that's on the left side of our politics, isn't it? you know, there's a mistake in notion out there that gene was somehow for privatization of social security, which he was not. gene talked about having -- adding a totally separate, additional account to social security, when there was a dialogue going on about should there be private accounts. >> let's generalize this, though. because really, i like to deal in generalities. >> me too. >> let's push the facts aside. the bigger problem is that barack obama listened to it a lot of people on the far left, the professional left, his first two years. and he lost 87 seats. he's learned his lesson now, hasn't he? he's got to steer to the center. >> well, you know, i'm -- barack

obama made his own decisions, you know. rahm emanuel advised him to not go forward with health care at all. to just say, look, there's this giant recession, we can't afford it now, put it off. he was advised to do that, apparently by joe biden and others. and he made his own decision. so he got advice from his left side, he got advice from his right side, and he has made his own decisions all the way along. i don't think we've had a more intelligent or wiser president. you know, you can argue with his -- with his policies and say i disagree with those policies, but you're not going to get a higher, you know, i.q. in the white house. >> wise? >> of course. guys -- >> wise politically now. >> there's one thing i don't understand. we talked about how the world lives in the center and whether obama is to get re-elected or get the country on the right track has made the moves he has made. what difference does it make what the left thinks? >> because the man doesn't have a base. he doesn't maintain --

>> by the way, is anybody going to run against him in a primary? where is the left base going? mitt romney? >> donny, it's all about 2000. >> well -- >> when you win by less than 1% of the vote, as can happen in a presidential election, believe me, you will bemoaning -- >> if it he understands going into 2012, if those five or six swing states that we all know define elections go the opposite way, he has no choice. and where is that left fringe base going? they can go with him begrudgingly or not, it's the independents -- i don't think he cares about the base. >> what makes it difficult is, you have to care about the base, and you have to care about how to reach these independents. if all you had to do was go to the middle then this would be real easy. >> i want to understand logistically, because if i'm running his campaign where that left fringe, that 10%, they're going to go with him regardless, they're not going to go vote for haley barbour. >> people have the option of not voting. >> and not working.

>> and they voted for ralph nader, and that threw an election. >> you know what's interesting as i'm listening to you talk, is obama met with bill clinton. remember that big meeting they had, that long meeting? i think that's more crucial than we -- than anybody realizes. because he comes out of it, and who does he go to? he goes to two of bill clinton's people. he moves to the middle. i'll bet that was a seminal discussion. >> well, joe biden is interesting here, too. because daly goes farther back with joe biden than anyone. bill daley was in joe biden 19 88 campaign. so this may be a strong indicator of how much new and expanding influence joe biden has, already, probably, possibly one of the most influential vice-presidents in history already. now you have daley coming in. surely joe biden was a cheerleader for daley coming in. >> another psychological thing that happens, interesting in the world of branding. people are going backwards. there's a belief and

authenticity when you bring back a time ex or levis that inherent from somebody in the past, they got it right. because the past is always better than the present or the future. so somehow reaching back to the past, there's a credibility, a gravitas, a credential. so maybe a little -- >> credential is the most important thing. the experience of working here. you know, bill clinton made a big mistake by bringing in -- and matt mccarty is the first guy to tell you this. by bringing in mac as his first chief of staff, he had not worked in government. so mac mccarty concluded, we need to replace me. it was one of the most noble things i've seen a white house chief of staff do, and then they bring in leon pa yetta, so what you're looking for in that job, since mac mccarty, the one experience outside of this mold, people with real experience in that building. >> and donny, think about this. that's what they needed. they needed credentials and experience. just think politically, if

you're a democrat who has outsiders and you need to get insiders, where do you go? republicans won the white house in '68, in '72, in '80, in '84, in '88. okay? then clinton won twice. and then they won in, you know, 2000, 2004. he had no -- people keep going, oh, this is just clinton part three. well, he's got no other choice. unless they want to go back to jimmy carter. >> what about the issue of age in leadership? i'm so fascinateded with the idea. not just experience in the actual politics of having worked there. but the experience of life. you had talked earlier about this notion of when -- when to panic, when you have an emergency. when jimmy carter was president, he was in constant emergency mode. the whole presidency. had all those young guys around him. jody and hamilton. reagan came in and everything

changed overnight. and i came around to think it was just age. it was i've been here, i know, this too shall pass, that whole mentality. bringing -- just an older guy who has seen life, who knows things. can turn around. >> that's critical -- >> calm down. >> mika lawrence, you know, he saw it. and we've talked about it, the finance committee. i saw it in congress. you know, the first ten times you go, if this bill doesn't pass, the constitution as we know will be -- you know, about the 11th, you go -- away. you know what, we'll just take care of it in committee later on. and pretty soon you're going, it's going to be okay. listen, we're going to lose this. it's like on the floor i saw hoyer and in 1994, democrats' hair, it was all on fair, because it was the first time

they were in the minority in 40 years. i talked to steny. steny was verizen very zen and know what, we heard our party was dead in '72. we're going to be back. >> what about the arc of john boehner's career and how his approach has changed over the years. that's what happens when you have a lot of experience. i guess the next question would be -- i'll start with lawrence, but i would love to hear leslie's perspective, as well. >> i talked too long. >> i'll start with leslie. >> you start with me, you will not get a word in. >> absolutely right. >> despite the sweater, a very smart man. >> yes, he is, but very long-winded. therefore, given the time that i've got left in this segment, you're right. okay, so gibbs' replacement. how important would it be to have some age and maturity and maybe perhaps a trip around the block or two, like a dee dee myers and a woman in that position? >> i think it would be great to have a woman in that position. but that has to be the toughest

job in washington. because you're right in the middle. you have to be representing the president. it's the real window on what the president -- what his mood is that day. but you also have to go back to the president and represent the press. and what -- our needs are. i had many clashes with those white house press secretaries but also felt sorry for them. they were in the worst bind of all, and they were out there publicly every day, on television every day. one little mistake, they've hurt the president. >> it's -- >> always angry at them. >> it's the terrible job. >> it's a job that requires skill and nuance and sort of quick-thinking and never being caught in a lie, and yet there are certain things that you don't want to get to. why would you then hire a young gun to use the term that's used for some of the new members of congress? >> we should not hire anybody who is excitable, anybody who hasn't lived through something like that before. >> yeah.

>> i think dedemeyer, although incredible competent, would be a mistake. that's too much. then he's going to start to get -- do you have any moves yourself, or are you just going back? so i would be surprised. >> i'm not sure i care about that. all right. the last word. >> dede is competent. so the air of confidence would probably overwhelm that clinton imagery thing. so, you know, i wouldn't worry too much about the clinton elements. >> i agree, though. i think it's too much. >> then it's kind of -- we understand why -- >> now clinton is running things again. >> let me ask you to say this for us, if you would. say msnbc -- >> i can't. you know, i have ted williams on my show last night. >> of course you did. >> he has been hired to do some of our voiceover stuff. i have hired him as my voice coach. >> really? >> yeah. >> you have a good voice. >> but it's not broadcast. >> i like it. >> did you use my ad idea for your show, the reason you're doing the show, marissa, come clean, come on the air, say the reason i do this is for what? >> my idea -- well -- i don't

remember your idea. >> i do it for the money. >> it's a frank zappa thing. >> i said go on the air and say that. use your positioning, it's honest, authentic. people respond to it. >> it was my promo idea three months ago. >> donny, let me tell you something. lawrence is very angry right now. because he has been -- >> i understand. >> he has been foisting this fraud, this fraudulent scheme on msnbc for years now. >> yeah. >> where he gets them to hire him, he gets a guaranteed two-year contract. >> brilliant. >> and then he gets cancelled after a month. >> yeah. >> this -- it's not working according to plan here, because the last word is getting great ratings. >> people like it. >> doing very well. >> so lawrence finds himself in a bind. >> the playbook at this point is to do something incredibly inappropriate on the air. >> we're all going to do that. >> epic proportions.

>> numbers continue to climb. it's going to have to be a really egregious act for them to take you out. is that fair to say? >> i don't know. i don't know. we're all on that tight rope. we can say something, on any one of these shows, and is that's the end of it. >> i know. >> the sanchez moment is right there for every one of us. >> i hear you. >> but the trick in life is to make them think you don't care if they fire you. when you really do care, how do you do that? >> that's really no trick for lawrence. >> coming up, i'm just going to -- i'm going to actually wrap this up and say it for ourselves. we're just a few minutes away. >> do we want to roll tape from earlier today? >> no, no! i apologize. >> who said the inappropriate thing? >> just a few minutes. >> absolutely not. >> we don't need lectures from mika this morning. >> a seven-second delay. i don't know why you weren't ready. >> so it's my fault. >> yeah. >> whose fault is it always?

>> it's chris's. >> got to blame chris. >> coming up, minutes away from the december jobs report. also, steven colbert weighs in on the race to rnc on the political playbook, and what stories made the cut. but first, more on manhattan snow with bill carrins, what is it look like. >> we're having road reports that are treacherous by philadelphia, along the border of p.a. and new jersey. this snowstorm is not really a snowstorm, it's pretty much a big snow squall that's going to go through your area in about two or three hours from philly to new york. let me give you an idea. philadelphia, you're almost done with your snow. new york city, bands of snow, probably already got a dusting. heavier snows out on 287 down the jersey turnpike and also down the garden state. further to the south, philadelphia has already picked up a quick inch. the snow starting to taper off.

and this could be it for philadelphia. your afternoon will probably be just fine. the bottom line, it's a quick, one to two inches and that's it. we're only calling for as much as 3 inches around boston. albany could get 5 or 6. as far as the rest of the forecast, pittsburgh, you're going to be cold, your flurries are ending. the rest of the country, we're also watching a little bit of light snow in the ohio valley. but pretty much just cold. no big storms out there right now. just a little tease ahead to next week. it looks like on monday in the southeast, we're going to get an unexpected snowstorm that could possibly track up the coast as a nor'easter on tuesday. that's the next big event we'll need to watch. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ william ] three years ago, i started my first real job

as a part time sales associate with walmart. when william came in i knew he had everything he needed to be a leader in this company. [ william ] after a couple of months, i was promoted to department manager. like, wow, really? me? a year later, i was promoted again. walmart even gave me a grant for my education. recently, he told me he turned down a job at one of the biggest banks in the country. this is where i want to be. i fully expect william will be my boss one day. my name is william and i work at walmart. ♪

speaker john boehner signaled that things would be different. beginning with the choice of his gavel. >> i now pass this gavel, which is larger than most gavels here, but the gavel of choice of mr. speaker boehner. >> that is one big [ bleep ] gavel. i think someone's compensating for his small government. >> 22 past the hour. time now to take a quick look at the morning paper. san francisco "chronicle" reflecting his no frills style. political observers say it's no surprise that governor jerry

brown is not planning to hire a secretary of education. instead relying on the state superintendent for policy advice. brown did the same thing in his previous two terms. >> and the "times" florida's new governor rick scott says he is open to a plan that would allow las vegas style casino resorts to operate in tampa and miami beach. >> o leslie. oh, leslie. what do you have? >> on "60 minutes", my plug, i have a story on gambling. and how so many states around the country are now bringing casinos in as a way to raise revenue. guess how many states now have casinos? i'm stunned by this. 38. >> are you serious? >> i'm serious. 38 states. and the slot machines, these new fancy, high-powered gizmo slot machines are the most popular. and the most addictive. >> affluent suburbs, right? >> they only put them in the poor neighborhoods. >> that's right.

>> where the most vulnerable people are spending whatever money they have. >> at a time when we have more vulnerable people than ever. >> i'm going to learn about this, because i watch -- i watch "lock up." i don't watch "60 minutes." i'm watching this network. >> so at 8:00, i'll be at elio's at 85th and 3rd. >> i'm going to send you dvds. >> this sunday on "60 minutes." "the seattle times" -- oh, you have it -- >> you can watch it -- >> i know there's a great "60 minutes" app you can put on your ipad. >> it's my ipad, and i've got the app. >> "60 minutes" app. >> all right, "the seattle times" retired boeing worker came forward to win the mega millions jackpot. speaking of gambling. it is a form. immediately after getting a ceremonial check, he handed it

over to his wife, and joked, we've been married 41 years, i know what to do with this check. good luck. >> now for the politico playbook is the editor in chief john harris. hey, john, steven colbert weighed in for the rnc chairmanship. i want you to take a look. >> i'm a michael steel fan. but there is one candidate with a fighting chance to unseat my guy. he's a former head of the wisconsin gop who engineered massive electoral gains in the 2010 mid terms. he's already a household name. so say it with me, ryan spreebus. why didn't you stay it with me? rans prebus sounds like what you would say to a cop when he pulls you over when you were stoned. rance prebus, officer. rance prebus. >> now yesterday six top donors sent a letter to the rnc

committee, urging a change in leadership. could rance prebus be the next rnc chairman. >> i'm not even going to try the first name. makes me glad i'm a print person. i don't have to learn to p pronounce that. he's got the upper hand. still a lang way from the 80-some votes he needs when they vote january 14th. what does seem clear, chairman steel himself. i think what catholics describe it as, he's in a state of extreme unshun, alive but barely there is almost no one that thinks steel has a chance to come back. the latest sort of nail in the coffin was this letter from six major fund raisers from around the country thinking it's time for a change. >> what's their chief complaint against michael steel? >> their chief complaint, too many public up roars, too much

distraction, too much about steel and his controversies, taking away from the core business of the rnc, raising money and creating the organizational infrastructure that candidates need to get elected. >> all right, john. thank you, john. >> thank you very much. greatly appreciate it. >> see you soon. >> yep, see you soon. have a good weekend. i guess chairman steel's brand has just been damaged by too many -- >> yeah -- >> and i think as a republican party, trying to move away from the party of no from the angry party. i think that that guy is not the right face. >> we're gonna miss him. >> it's just wonderful for what -- >> a lot of chuck else. >> he was. oh, boy -- >> the december jobs report, next, with erin burnett. ws phone with an irresistible full key... oh, too much? now get an lg quantum™ for only $99.99. only from at&t. rethink possible.

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all right. half past the hour. snow is coming down in new york. and we are awaiting word on new december job numbers, which i think are in and out now, joe. >> i think so. let's get the latest from cnbc's international superstar erin burnett. she's got the story. what's it look like? >> here's what it looks like overall. we've got some really good news and some sort of average news. let me give you the great news first. the great news on the unemployment rate. we had a real drop there. that's important, because we had seen it ticking up. so the unemployment rate fell to 9.4% to 9.7. that's a real drop. and that's important. and again, that's based on the

survey of individuals around country. you only count in that number if you've looked for a job in the past four weeks. so as you know, as people start to think jobs are plentiful, they start looking again. and you might see that rate tick up, even as the market gets stronger for jobs. so the fact that it ticked down is a really good sign. on the payroll number, which is more important for the market, because it's actually based on what companies report in terms of hiring and firing, that number was short of expectations. we were looking for nonfarm payroll, additions of 150,000. we only got 103,000. when you strip out government, i don't really think you should strip out government at this point, but if you strip out government, 113,000 jobs were added and on that basis, also significantly short of expectations. so that's the overall headline. i would emphasize the good news, though, is the rate is ticking down. average hourly earnings are improving. which is also important. one other thing, though, that i would highlight as negative, and robert just handed me this, is an important thing.

we look at how long it takes to find a job. that actually ticked up slightly to 34.2 weeks. and that is a very high number. i mean, we -- >> but erin, you know and i know the screaming headline throughout the weekend on the sunday talk shows, monday morning -- >> the rate. >> it's going to all be the rate dropping to 9.4%. >> yes. >> when that number goes below 9, and i -- as we have been saying here for three or four months, we're very optimistic. when that number goes below 9, they're not going to start playing happy days are here again. but they're going to start -- start warming up the orchestra. >> yeah. they are. and it's not -- i don't want to say that they shouldn't. i mean, that is an important metric to look at. there's no question about it. but we need to see sustained job growth of 200, 250,000 jobs a month on that payroll number to really start to eat away at that. all right, so remember yesterday we talked about the barclays foreign exchange unit that said we could have a private payroll

ad of 450,000 jobs? and i said if that happened the market would go crazy? but it was a really outlier, obviously it didn't happen. even at that rate, right, it would have taken 30 some odd months to get out of the hole. we lost 8 million jobs in this financial crisis, and we've only gained back 1 million of them. >> we have lesley stahl here with a question. >> yes. >> hi, erin. i wonder what the december tick up in hiring, because of christmas and people working in stores, things like that, is going to affect the later months. in other words, is this drop in unemployment related to christmas, and are we likely to get something negative as we move into what's happening in january and february? >> it's a really great question, and answer to that is yes, we might see a little bit of that. they try to seasonally adjust. but around the holidays, you always do get a little bit of that issue. we did, though, lesley, see an improvement in manufacturing, which is less linked to

retailers as opposed to services. it was only a 10,000 job improvement. but we did get that. it is a fair point and people are going to watch that carefully, because they can never fully seasonally adjust it to accommodate for that. >> all right, erin. if i'm president and the unemployment just dropped to 9.4% -- >> i got that football to your point, joe. everything else is subtext. we are trained now as a business culture and as a consuming culture to look at that number, as i think that's going to make a tremendous psychological impact. >> but not if it goes up again. that's the fear. >> interestingly enough, they have kind of a hedge if it goes up. it's because businesses, people on the sideline, go okay, i can get a job now. so actually a natural spike that will happen. >> all right. erin, thanks. >> a lost money on the sidelines. corporate profits have exploded. and we've always known. we've always known that job hiring, there's a delayed effect from growth in the economy. it's coming. >> every ceo's neck in the last six or eight weeks has been kind

of like this. >> yeah. >> okay. >> they're ready to go. >> still ahead, willie's week in review. first our political roundtable with congressman price and eugene robinson. next on "morning joe." ♪ every 60 seconds someone, somewhere, is making the switch to tempur-pedic. now it's your turn. call now for your free information kit including a tempur material sample, along with a dvd and catalog. traditional mattresses use metal springs that can

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republicans introduce new budgetary rules that promote fiscal responsibility and fuzzy math. the cost of all the priorities the republicans have exempted from paygo is a staggering $1.01 trillion in red ink. so much for cutting the deficit. on the first day on the job, republicans are already spending trillions more than they plan to cut. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 39 past the hour. joining us from capitol hill,

republican representative from georgia and chairman of the republican policy committee, congressman tom price. and in washington, msnbc political analyst and pulitzer prize winning writer for "the washington post," eugene robinson back on the show. good to see you. >> congressman, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> you heard what chuck schumer said. others are talking about how republicans trying to repeal the president's health care plan. >> sure. >> will cost hundreds of billions of dollars. what's your response to that? >> well, this comes from a group who believes that paygo actually was a responsible fiscal mechanism that left us with $1.4 trillion in debt, each of the last two years. so what we believe is that you actually got to look at the numbers, and work with real numbers. for example, the obama care repeal, the repeal of the health care bill they say they believe costs $1.3 billion added to the deficit. in fact it would free up $700 billion if you look and quit using the gimmicks they use to

pass the bill. so garbage in, garbage out. >> so it just seems to me, just intuitive, that if you get rid of a huge entitlement program, you're going to save money. >> exactly. >> and yet if we're going to live by the cbo numbers that i quote religiously, don't we have to die by the cbo numbers? if the cbo tells us that what we want will cost taxpayers more money in the long run? >> well, it's one of the things that actually we need to have a discussion about and come to an agreement about how you're going to score these things. how you're going to figure out how much they're going to cost. because the cbo, they're good folks, but they only give you, based upon the information that you give them. and so the whole system is gamed. that's why we've got to get a new system, a new way to be able to determine how much programs are actually going to cost so that you can actually compare real numbers, apples to apples. right now, it doesn't work. and so it's garbage in, garbage out. >> so the debate that the cbo has spurred over whether or not

health care repeal increases the deficit by a massive amount of money, that -- you would look at those numbers, wouldn't you, as a republican? >> absolutely. you look at it, but they're flawed. it doesn't include the $115 billion that it costs us to run the program. it doesn't -- it doesn't account for the double counting of the medicare, quote, savings that they have. it doesn't account for the $500 billion in taxes. it doesn't account for the money to reimburse physicians for the services that they provide. if you actually use all of those real numbers, then the bill itself, repealing it, will save $700 billion. >> so we want to go -- we want to go to gene for a second. but i just can't let this pass. lawrence, obviously, you know this better than anybody. you've worked finance. it doesn't -- it seems counterintuitive to say, if you get rid of this huge entitlement program, it's going to cost you more money. i've got to be honest with you. i don't believe those numbers. >> okay. here's where -- >> i speak that in total ignorance -- >> no, you're right. because, look, the bill is -- half of the bill is a giant

expansion of medicaid, okay? so that's -- that is a new cost. there's a piece of the bill that is very important, which is a $500 billion cut in medicare. there's a giant medicare cut in this bill. that's where the savings are coming from. the savings are not coming from creating the new entitlement. the new entitlement costs you money. there's also revenue in this. there's 15 different taxes in it. the biggest tax is a tax that has never existed before, and i will safely predict to you, absolutely has no chance of raising the amount of revenue -- the amount of revenue that the cbo says it will raise. it's -- it's a tax that we have never tested. it won't work. but this is all academic, because we're not going to repeal. >> that's exactly the case. so do -- eugene robinson, chime inment the . i'm just wondering if this is the top goal that should be on the top of the list for republicans as they move forward. >> well, you know, good luck to

them if they think this is really the best thing to do. i don't think this should be the top goal. it's not going to happen. health care bill -- health care act is not going to be repealed. it will get through the house, it's a symbolic vote. and i'm sure some of the republican base, especially the tea party supporters, who feel very strongly about this, will be cheered by that. but i really do wonder what independents are going to think and others who are -- who are kind of watching the sort of, you know, no drama, the shadow play going on in washington that everyone knows is not going to lead anywhere. it seems a bad way to start. >> may not lead anywhere, but how about defunding the program? that is -- that's -- that's easier. >> look, that's the next step. it's important to repeal -- vote to repeal in the house for three specific reasons. one, it's what we said we were going to do and washington rarely does that. we made a promise to the

american people, if given the privilege of leading once again, we would vote to repeal. second, the national federation of independent business and the cbo actually estimate that this will co somewhere between 600,000 and 1.6 million jobs so it's a job killer. we need to stop that craziness. and as a physician, i can tell you that the bill itself is constructed to not just quality of health care but accessibility and affordability. so for those reasons, it's important to vote to repeal. that being said, you're right. it's not going to become law, because even if it got through the senate, the president would veto it. so then you have to work on positive, patient-centered proposals and solutions to this system, which is where you defund portions of the obama care bill, and then you move forward with getting more people covered with insurance that they want. you solve the insurance challenges of portability and preexisting, and you address the huge issue of lawsuit abuse. >> let's go to donny deutsch. >> beyond the fact there is no chance for repealing it, the republicans are so tone deaf to

not understand, they kind of have the mantle to move forward, i don't want to say to be progressive, because that's the wrong word. the public just wants to move on at this point. and it just sets them back. it is so strategically wrong, beyond the fact that it can't get done. >> i would agree, donny. i mean, i thought one of the smart things -- and i didn't totally agree with it at the time, but i think one of the smart things president obama did when he came into office was say, we're not going to look back at the bush administration, what it did, you know, in terms of the secret cia prisons in guantanamo. a lot of issue s i care passionately about. but he didn't want some sort of truth commission. he wanted to move forward. and i think most people agreed with that. it's time to move forward. certainly now -- we know the economic crisis. people want to move forward and i don't think they want to talk about health care. >> gene, you don't speak for all the people. i mean, this is the defining issue. barack obama's numbers started collapsing.

>> sure. >> in august of 2009. if i'm a republican, i know that most of my independent votes came because of health care. i know most of my contributions came because of health care, because if you tell a small business owner that this health care bill is not relevant to their life, they will laugh you out of their small business. >> gene? >> exactly. >> well -- the health care bill -- the health care bill cuts both ways. and joe, as you know, when you ask people about the health care bill, which has been painted as big government taking over ya-da, ya-da, ya-da, most people don't like it. when you ask people about specifics in it, most people like the specifics. so this is an issue that cuts both ways. but in any event, we have litigated it. it's done. >> congressman, congratulations. >> thanks. >> when are we going to get specific cuts moving forward to balance the budget? is that coming in the next couple months?

>> it will, indeed. the first issue is making certain that we pass this repeal of obama care and then we move forward with specific spending decreases as well as making certain there are no tax increases on the american people or american business. so we can create jobs in this country. >> all right. >> congressman, thank you. eugene, thank you. "week in review" is next. ♪ ♪ yes i'm stuck in the middle with you ♪ ooh, a brainteaser. how can expedia now save me even more on my hotel? well, hotels know they can't fill every room every day. like this one. and this one.

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willie's wig in review.

>> when you're listening to nothing but the best of oldies, you're listening to magic 98.9. >> at number three, the voice by the side of the road. >> tomorrow morning is your chance to win a pair of tickets to see this man, live in concert. >> a homeless man with an impossibly smooth set of pipes was discovered this week, holding a cardboard sign along interstate 71 in columbus, ohio. >> going to make you work for your dollar. say something with that great radio voice. >> the clip of ted williams performing on an exit ramp whipped across the country, leading to a whirlwind of interviews, job offers and even a mortgage from an nba team. >> cleveland cavaliers have offered me a full-time job. >> and a house. >> and a house. >> williams also got a "today" show trip to new york where he was reunited with his mother. >> from nbc news, this is "today," with matt lauer and meredith vieira. >> the feel-good, how the hell did that voice come from that

body element of the story drew comparisons to susan boyle. ♪ want to cry me a river >> ted williams, riding his velvety voice from homelessness to a job, a home, and comparisons so a middle age british woman. >> we'll be right back after these words. at number two. the stick-up. >> ah! >> an unconventional robbery at a convenience store in manassas, virginia where the suspend barged into the joint, wielding a giant tree limb. faced with the pruned branch, the clerk countered with a hammer, and the dramatic standoff was on. ♪ >> the robber eventually got away with the cash, proving the old adage, you don't bring a carpenter's hammer to a giant tree limb fight. and the number one story of the week. >> i now pass this gavel and the

sacred trust that goes with it. god bless you, speaker boehner. >> yes, the shift in the balance of washington power was news-worthy. but the 112th congress was overshadowed this week by a slightly more important development. the arrival of the end times. the first reports that the apocalypse was upon us came from arkansas, where thousands of birds died suddenly in flight on new year's eve. and rained down from the heavens to the earth below. >> and i saw a little black thing here and there and there, and i said, wait a minute, what is that? >> the initial explanation is that the birds were shocked to death by fireworks. but the rest of us knew we were watching precisely what the mayans predicted centuries ago with their famous 2011 prophecy. it was 2011, right?

then, more dead birds in louisiana, kentucky and across the world in sweden. fish washing ashore from the chesapeake bay to the beaches of brazil. and then in the final sign that the end was near, snooki released a book. >> you are [ bleep ] shutty [ bleep ]. >> i don't give a -- [ bleep ]. i will attack you like a squirrel monkey. >> the only hope for humanity now is a bare atoned messiah, returning to us from columbus, ohio. >> we'll be back with more right after these words. all right. coming up next. >> i don't know. >> what? >> well, we'll find out. >> did you learn anything? >> yeah. >> we'll be right back. ♪ and i know that it's true that all the things that i do will come back to me in my sweet time ♪ ♪ so keep on rockin' me baby

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♪ time now to talk about what we learned today. i learned that erin burnett also e-mailed in saying the long term unemployment rate also dropped to 16.7%. across the board. >> great news. great news. what did you learn? >> i learned that you have a very generous audience. when i announced the kids in need of desks fund here on december 17th, your friend, miles nadal came up with hundreds of thousands of dollars to pledge to the fund, going forward. we've raised $1.7 million